The latest Superstar Communicator podcast is an interview with Andy Lopata, who is an International Speaker and author.
This is an inspirational interview where Andy shares the power of Asking. So often we ‘ask” if someone is okay, and they say ‘yes’ even though they aren’t okay. Or we feel we can’t ask for help or support because we have to be brave. In the last year we have all needed support from each other, and putting on a brave face hasn’t been the best strategy.
Learning points from the podcast
- There is real power in asking the question: whether this is asking how someone REALLY is, or a question about how a business is doing.
- It is OKAY to ask for opportunities. Unless you ask, people don’t know you are looking for these.
- It is OKAY to be vulnerable; to ask for help; to ask for support. And if you are being asked something, remember to listen carefully to the other person.
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Here is the transcript of the podcast interview.
Just Ask: Andy Lopata
people, book, referrals, support, relationship, opportunities, podcast, andy, approach, minutes, journey, tag, psa, absolutely, life, business, connection, talk, respect, recognised
Susan Heaton-Wright, Andy Lopata
Susan Heaton-Wright 00:00
Welcome to the superstar communicator podcast. My name is Susan Heaton-Wright, a leading impact speaking and communications expert. My aim is to show you how to make an impact. So you will be heard or listened to and respected for career success. Listen weekly to the podcast, and go to our website, www.superstarcommunicator.com Hello, everybody, this is Susan Heaton-Wright. From Superstar Communicator, I am delighted that you have tuned in today to listen to the latest episode of the Superstar Communicator podcast, as you know, or this podcast is all about spoken communication, and how we can make an impact, raise all credibility, in business, in our careers, but also in our personal lives. I know that recently, you loved one of the guests that I had. And it was Andy Lopata and he was talking about his book on leadership and networking. Now, just for you all he’s back on the other end of the internet, talking about his new book. So welcome, Andy.
Thanks for inviting me back so soon Susan.
Susan Heaton-Wright 01:31
Well, you know, I love having fantastic guests, and I love supporting amazing people. And I would put you in that category.
Thank you, I really appreciate the support.
Susan Heaton-Wright 01:43
Now your book is called Just Ask. And I received it today. And I’ve just been looking through the content. Can you tell us a little bit about the background to this?
Yeah, sure. So it goes back about five years, and to a community that we both know and love, which is the Professional Speaking Association. And my business was really struggling at the time. And we we got to the point on this journey, at that time, where we were within about £400 of our overdraft limit with no scope for any more. So we were on the edge. And I was a I went to a few PSA meetings around that time. And as you know, people within the PSA are very close to each other, particularly the longer you’re a member, I’ve been a member since 2003. You know, we call it our, our tribe, and we’re there for each other. And I was going to these meetings, and people were saying How’s business? And of course I was answering is great. Yeah, and it wasn’t. And you know, there’s there’s a lot more to the story, but which I share in the book and as I open it. But basically, I’ve recognised that if I couldn’t even share in that space, then what hope was there for me, and and I consider myself quite open. So if I wasn’t being open about where I was at what about other people. So I set myself the goal of turning the business around with the help of other people. And speaking at the PSA convention when I had achieved that turnaround, because you always want a happy ending, and encouraging everyone else to look at their own approach and mindset to this vulnerability to being honest about where we’re at. And to turn it around. And in the time between me making that commitment to myself and delivering that talk, which I did in 2016. Someone I knew passed away, as someone I knew through networking. And after the memorial service at which so many people stood up and talked about his generosity, and how he was always there for other people and never talked about himself. I found out that he had taken his own life and had done it because of money trouble. And it just reinforced everything of the journey I was on. So I delivered the talk in 2016. I talked about Richard at the end of that presentation. Some people in the room knew him. And then. So many people came up to me afterwards and said, You know, I think one member from one region had emailed everyone in this region to say, after this talk, I need to share this with you. And there were so many responses like that, but I realised that the journey didn’t finish there. And so the latest step has has just been taken with the publication of the new book.
Susan Heaton-Wright 04:46
Well, congratulations on the book. I know how hard you worked on it. I find asking a very, very interesting topic. I don’t know about you, but I was brought up Not to ask for things. Yeah, I don’t know if it’s a generational thing. But certainly I can think of key moments when I’ve been told off by parents or a tutor at college, you know, influential people, you shouldn’t ask, no, you mustn’t ask. How do you feel about that?
I think there are a number of environmental factors that go into our inability to ask for help, you know, a section of the book, I look at all the differences between us. So you’ve got generational differences as a chapter on that there’s a chapter on cultural differences. So you look at a society a very patriarchal society, like India, for example, I talked to very senior Indian business women. And, you know, there are very, very strong factors at play there. And you look at, there’s a chapter on gender differences. All these things come into play into what prevents us from asking for help. I think in terms of what our parents said, that may be one thing, I think what society says is even stronger. And society has traditionally said, You’ve got to, you’ve got to know the answers. You know, this is what we’re told in school, you know, education, and I don’t know how much has changed now. But in my day, you know, you you’re supposed to know the answer. We weren’t taught about research until the very late stages of education, you know, and this effectively asking for help is research, the basic degree. And we weren’t taught about that you were just expected to read the book yourself and know, and not ask people. So there’s all these different factors that come into it, and society conditions us to appear strong, to appear independent of thought, to show that we know the answer, I gave a talk on this topic last week. To a global audience of ex-pat experts around the world. And people were saying that a couple of people came in very early. And so one of them worked for a law firm and said in her law firm, you know, you aren’t you are expected to know the answer. Do not ask for help. So it’s still out there. But it’s changing. You know, you see the number of celebrities stories about suicide attempts and depression and various challenges. You see Prince William and Prince Harry’s campaigns. And you can see that there is a shift in society. But it’s taking a while.
Susan Heaton-Wright 07:42
Really, really interesting that in particular, you’re focusing on mental health. For the last three years, I have been included in some of the workshops and talks I’ve done about asking for opportunities. And certainly I can think back to key moments in my life, where it was almost, you know, sliding doors moment, that pick as I asked, a completely new world opened up for me. And yet people professionally, are sometimes reluctant to ask for opportunities. What about that?
Yeah, and I think I should be clear, it’s a really interesting book, because you know, you’re taught from a marketing perspective, you should be able to pigeonhole your book to a niche audience. to a large degree, this is really tough, because the natural extension of the work I’ve done to date, which is on networking, professional relationships, referral strategies, my third book was called How to Sell through networking and referrals was the subtitle, the natural extension is asking for opportunities. You say that I focus on mental health, that’s almost a natural progression of the work I was doing because of Richard’s decisions take his own life, because of the stories that I uncovered. And I shared in the book, it wasn’t a conscious decision to focus on mental health. I mean, we’re now supporting a mental health charity, my Black Dog. So it’s there. But actually, the natural extension of my work is what you’re talking about asking for opportunities. And just ask is about all of it. It’s about asking for help, whether you’re saying, I don’t quite know how to finish this project, or I need a referral, or whether it’s, you know, I don’t know, we’d send I don’t know what to do, I’m going to take my own life, you know, so it’s, it’s the whole range. It’s understanding what prevents us. But, you know, at that very basic level of, you know, we are surrounded by people who would love to help us if they had the opportunity, who would take joy and pleasure in helping us and yet we don’t ask and we by presenting It’s not even not ask just not asking by presenting this mask, this face of success and strength to the world, people don’t think we need help. So one of the stories I share is that when I was the beginning of this journey where I realised I wasn’t being vulnerable, I bumped into another fellow PSA man, in London. And then he said to me, How’s business? And I found myself saying, actually, it’s pretty bad at the moment. He was Really? How can I help? and then he gave me two referrals in the next two weeks. And I asked him about this sometime later, I said you’d never referred me before. He said, I never thought you needed it.
Susan Heaton-Wright 10:47
It’s as simple as that.
Susan Heaton-Wright 10:51
You people can’t mind read you can they!
Now they can’t. So there’s two elements to that. There’s the element of if we present a mask of ourselves to the world that says that we’re absolutely, you know, flying, they don’t look to support us because they don’t think we need it. And the second is, if we’re not clear about the help, we need, not just that we need help, but the help we need, then then, it’s much harder for people to support us. And one of the things I’ve always said in the referrals perspective, and it rolls over into this work is your job is to make it as easy as possible for people to help you. If you make it easy for people to help you. And they’re people with whom you haven’t established relationships, they want to help you, they will get pleasure from doing so. But that means you have to paint a picture of the help and support that you need. And you have to push your pride out of the way sometimes to do that.
Susan Heaton-Wright 11:55
A really, really good point. And I think that this could be one of the key points from this podcast, if I’m honest. But what happens when there is somebody that is always asking for help always asking for money, always asking for referrals, sort of flipping things over to the other side? We do know people like that. How would you counsel us to manage that?
Yeah, I mean, I think I wouldn’t use a broad brush approach of always asking for help, or never asking for help. I think like everything, there’s Shades of Grey nuances within it. So it may be someone who asked regularly, but we know equally that we can ask them. So you end up with a really strong reciprocal relationship. Now it’s up to us to ask for that help for them. And they may be offering. But let’s say it’s you that’s always doing the asking, I think you have to have an instinct of when you got to stop. And you know, not push too hard. And just, you know, easy things to ask for, but then pull back a little bit of seats and support shown interest in that other person. And so there is that element, if someone is always asking you for help. And I think for me, you’ve got to know whether if it’s even if it’s not necessary at the moment, whether it’s in theory, it could be both ways. Are they willing to reciprocate? Are they interested in you? Are they looking? Or are they just leeching. And that, to me is where any decisions are made on how strong that relationship is and how you want to push it forward. To me, I’m, if I can help people that I like, and I know that help is appreciated. And I know that help is listened to with respect, and acted on with commitment, they might not necessarily take my advice, if it’s advice they’re seeking, but they would weigh it up and take it seriously. If they made me feel valued by feeding back to me and and showing their appreciation, then I don’t think I would have a problem with it. I think it’s when people ask for help, don’t say thank you don’t update, you don’t act on it, and then come back again and then again and never show any sign of an interest in you. That’s where relationships fall down.
Susan Heaton-Wright 14:23
That’s a really, really interesting point , for the person asking that. It’s not exclusively asking for the support or the referral or whatever it is that they want. It’s a whole way of behaving.
Yeah, and I’ll put my hands up there are times when I felt that I may have asked too much of someone. And if I felt that instinctively I’ve backed off. Yeah, and and it’s um, it’s recognising the you don’t always Have a balanced relationship. So you bet some people might be in a better position to help you than you are to them. That’s their perception. They don’t, you know, you have an imbalance of perception. So you see how they can help you, they don’t think that way about you whether you could or not. So I think that you do have to look at individual relationships, the intent has to be pure. And you have to sort of feel okay, maybe they’re not getting, they’re not getting it, they’re not feeling my appreciation. They’re not asking me for anything, they’re not letting me in. Maybe I need to back off. So I think that you need to listen to your gut on this stuff as well.
Susan Heaton-Wright 15:43
And do you think it’s worthwhile saying, when somebody has been very generous to you? How can I help you? Is there anything I can do is as somebody I can recommend you to?
Yes. And sometimes you might have to push that harder with, you know, than others. But yeah, always make it known that you are happy to help the other person. You know, one of the things I do is, and it’s a natural thing I do mean, one of the difficulties about what I teach is that I’m analysing what works and then teaching it, you know, which makes it almost mechanical, when it should be natural. But one of the things that I do that works well is I’m always looking to make connections, and send articles of interest. It’s on the show, I’m thinking of someone anyway, so I naturally connect people. So but but what I’ll do is I won’t force a connection with someone, I will message them and say, I’ve met this person, I think they’re interesting for you, would you like an introduction? And then I’ll respect their response. So I think you can actually be proactive about seeking opportunities. But other times say, look, and if isn’t, what is it? You need? Yes. And that language that I caught myself, cuz I was saying, if there’s anything I can do for you, people just say, Yeah, okay, I’ll let you know.
Susan Heaton-Wright 17:06
Direct, what is it, I can help you with? put people on the spot a little bit? And then you’ll get a much longer answer.
Susan Heaton-Wright 17:17
Really, really good point, the the use of language, it’s very subtle, isn’t it?
It is an actually I caught myself. And I’m asking myself, are there people where I could go back and be that that bit more direct with them? Because I know, my the purity of my intent, if you like, yes. And I like to think that they would know. But am I making a dangerous assumption there?
Susan Heaton-Wright 17:40
Yes. It’s going into the Oh, they can mind read me?
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Susan Heaton-Wright 17:46
And we can’t, we can’t mind read, we can assume, but we’re putting our own own thoughts on with that. Now, a number of my listeners are people that are emerging leaders. So they’re moving into senior roles. And I often say to people, that it’s worthwhile asking the question, could I have 15 minutes of your time just to see some recommendations of things I could do? How would you approach it, it would be very interesting.
I think you’ve you’ve pretty much nailed it there. You know, asking for 15 minutes of their time shows it wouldn’t be a huge burden, and you’d respect the time that they offer. Explain what you’re seeking to achieve. Again, something that when you strip it down and share it sounds a little bit manipulative, but done done in the right way isn’t. It is flattery? You know, look, I want to achieve this. I really respect what you’ve achieved. And I would love to get some of your insights, Could you spare me 15 minutes. Always Be prepared with a follow up, ask if they haven’t got that 15 minutes. So if you ask big and then settle for slightly less, you get something. So for example, I approached a very well known very successful, international author and speaker to mentor me. And he just didn’t have time, he said, but come on my course. And he mentors me anyway. Now he just doesn’t realise it. I know I can ask him. But you could say for example, could I have 15 minutes of your time to pick your brains? Well, I haven’t really got much time. Well, okay. Well, if I sent you three or four questions, yes, would you answer and then keep them updated afterwards on your progress. So make them part of that journey, it goes down to that appreciation I talked about, don’t just pick their brains and run away with it. You’re gonna pick people’s brains so that you appreciate valuate by showing them how you apply what I’ve said, and the success it brings to you. And the more you do that, the more people will feel good about helping you and want to repeat the pleasure that made them feel Repeat the action that made them feel good.
Susan Heaton-Wright 20:02
You know, everybody, I think that that’s another key gem from this podcast interview, that the people that you are, they’re part of your journey. They’re part of your business or personal journey.
And I know I’m trying to think who it was, I mean, repeat it here anyway. But someone in the last week had a big success with something. And I know it came from my suggestion or my advice, I can’t do that. Sorry. But I noticed they didn’t acknowledge that. And I wasn’t looking for public praise or anything like that. But Thanks, Andy, that really helped, would have made me feel good.
Susan Heaton-Wright 20:43
Those missed opportunities, you know, the damage relationships, mean people are less likely or more likely to help you in future. And you know, and elevate, elevate your network. So just be conscious, be mindful about the role other people play in your journey.
Susan Heaton-Wright 21:06
That’s a really, really good point. I mean, certainly, and I hope that I’ve never missed you offer anything, but but I do acknowledge people when things and tagged them in posts, because not because I want more likes, but actually, because I want them to have the spotlight on them.
That’s it. And I think that’s the balance because some people tag others in social media posts, because they want to get their net that person’s networks to see their posts. And I find that disrespectful, extreme, I hate it. I’ve seen loads, it’s happened to me again this morning. And it’s just so disrespectful. You know, and I say I’ve had people say to me who have tagged me in a post about it, and I don’t do it, you know, even if they’ve asked me unless it’s directly relevant to them, because it’s a good, healthy precedent to set. But if it’s specifically related to something they’ve said or done, and you’re sharing that, and shining a spotlight on them for that, and absolutely, that’s, that’s a good form of appreciation.
Susan Heaton-Wright 22:15
Good. Glad I’m getting something right.
So I’ve never had a complaint about you taking me Don’t worry.
Susan Heaton-Wright 22:23
Well I like to hope that if I did overstep the mark, we know each other well enough that you’d be able to contact me and say, Hey,
well, he’s testing things. So I would like to think that as well. And I do get annoyed when people do it. Because my, you know, apart from anything, my notifications on whichever side it is get congested with stuff. It’s nothing to do with me. And it’s sucking my time and energy. And if people asked, that might be different, but it’s just awful. And isn’t even because he’s got a network, you know, and so forth. But I normally don’t say anything, I just removed the tag. Yes, passive aggressive, but I just don’t need the confrontation happened with someone recently. And they’ve done it before a few times, and it’s someone had helped in their career. So I posted underneath it, and I posted a video of me speaking at the Ambition Broxbourne conference that I know you’re aware of, where I there’s a little clip of me saying Don’t tag people in post that nothing to do with them. And it was removed within two minutes. And I was unfriended,
Susan Heaton-Wright 23:36
Oh, I didn’t like the unfriended bit.
But they removed me as a connection on LinkedIn. And I was red with rage because this is someone I had referred and given a lot of support to in their career. And I sent a very angry message on Facebook and it got ignored for a while. Then she came back to me the next day full of apology saying it was her VA who did it you have to be careful if you outsource your social media because that did a lot of damage to our relationship. You in this is the problem. It’s us you know, we’re going off a bit because you know, your initial suggestion was absolutely fine. You know, because you about tagging people put a spotlight on them for something they’ve done which is absolutely fine. But I think while we’re on this topic of tagging people without you know about you a think about how you do it and be think about how you respond within not happy with it. Because, you know, and if you outsource you think carefully about the outlines because that really damaged our relationship.
Susan Heaton-Wright 24:44
And that’s a shame. I hope it’s been resolved now.
Yes, yeah. I mean, she she was very apologetic. But you know, of course at some level there’s an element of the trusted relationship that’s Yeah, been chipped away at you know, As wonderful a person as I could try to be, I’m human, and that’s going to be any
Susan Heaton-Wright 25:04
war. Absolutely. And, and it really gets back to the core of this particular book that we are human beings. Yeah. And a lot of our visibility now because we’re in this lockdown situation, as we speak, is virtual. And we can assume that we’re almost two dimensional with that, but we are three dimensional, we’re human beings. And any connection is a human connection, not just a name on a list on LinkedIn.
Yeah, completely. And I think that’s, that is one of the downsides of social media is that we de- humanise the people on the other end of the profile. And you see it in a lot of the connection requests, you know that the spammy approaches, the number crunching and so on, they forget the human being there. And there’s time involved in engagement. You know, it amazes me when someone I’ve never met before. And I don’t want to sound arrogant saying this, because this this is it amazes me for absolutely anyone, you know, they’ll send a connection request to a complete stranger, you reply and say, Well, tell me why you want to connect to them say, well, let’s have a phone call. I’m just baffled. You know, as lovely as it is, but how many you send? Yeah, how many phone calls? Are you having? actually doing any work? And I know that I’m worried that sounds incredibly arrogant. Yeah, it’s just amuses me. And it’s just there’s no respect for other people’s time. I wonder about your own time. You know, you know, it’s a matter of the ward approach. Because yes, every phone call you have could lead to work, and it could lead to opportunities. But there has to be some filter there.
Susan Heaton-Wright 26:58
Yeah. Which gets us to another part of our podcasts interview that is, you sharing three top tips for asking.
Okay, well, there’s 10 of the back of the book.
Susan Heaton-Wright 27:16
Not that far yet.
But what I think, actually, I’ll tell you how I’m gonna answer this. So when I wrote the book, I mentioned it’s been a long journey. This book has been three years in writing. And four drafts, I did not get it right the first three times, and hopefully I’ve got it right . But I had rewritten it, I’d restructured it and nothing was working. And I was stuck, completely stuck. It was I’m trying to think it was maybe very early this year or or late last year. And this time last year, I was really stuck. I didn’t know where to go with this book. And the structure wasn’t working at all. And I went to bed one night, in fact, I’m pretty sure it was last Christmas, because it was when I put it down to my body just stopping at my mind stopping the day to day and just letting the space for other stuff to come in. And I am pretty sure now I think about it. I went down to see friends before Christmas in Devon, and it was that the night before I went or something like that. And I just switched off. I think I switched off from work. And I dreamt and the dream I had was that I was rewriting the book with two of our fellow speaking friends. Simon Hazeldine, and Chantal Cornelius. I’m not even sure if I told Simon and Chantal this story. And by the way, Simon and Chantal have had no input into this book other than in my dream. And and they are brilliant at what they do. But they’re not relevant to this topic. In terms of their expertise, why it was them, I have no idea. But anyway, so I dreamt that Simon Chantal and I were rewriting the book and one of us was writing a section, one section, I’ll come to what they were in a second. One of us is writing and other and one of us writing the third. And I woke up and I went that’s it. That’s the structure of the book, these three sections and, and I got up and I wrote the three sections down. And then I went back to bed thinking right out of my head. Now I go to sleep course I didn’t spend the next four hours or five hours from three o’clock in the morning, writing out a whole chapter, listen structure of the book and so on. I restructured the whole book that night
and the three sections for this. And so these are three tips. So and you’ll see the six sections in the book because we’ve recognised there’s other things that didn’t fit that pattern that were in there, but this is the core of the book and the core of the approach. So the first section and the first Tip was about having the courage to ask. So in the book, I explore what stops us what holds us back. So my first tip is to understand what’s holding you back from asking why you’re not doing it and address that. And addressing it means either understanding what’s holding you back and why it’s not rational and getting past the fears or the desire to look good, is probably the number one. And so getting past that, or recognise that it is a real challenge, and find a way, you know, to address it so that you can ask for help. So finding the courage is number one, the second section in the dream was strategy, actually having a strategy for asking for help. So understand what you want to ask for what you need support in, in your career, in your role in your business, in your life, whatever it might be. Where is it that you’re struggling? what’s what’s in my mental health early? What’s affecting your mental health? What is it that’s holding you back from getting that promotion that you want? What’s best that gap to make that next step up the career ladder, whatever it might be? What do you need help with? And who’s best place to help you whether it’s because of their experience and expertise, or whether it’s because of your relationship with them? That the message of the book isn’t going ask everyone for help, you know, go out in the street and say, help me. It’s about having a trusted network of people that you can turn to. So where do you want their help to come from? What helped you want? Where do you want it to come from? And then the third section of the books, the third tip is to to actually put it into action? Yes. So have the courage to face it, understand what support you want, and then implement it. And I think a key tip in this section, I interviewed again, someone you may know Billy Shere. The former is a former world champion boxer. And I shared the story. He used to live just up the road from you in Luton, which is why and PSA member which one I thought you might know him. But Billy was World Champion, went off the rails. world champion boxer, went off the rails and then rebuilt his life. You know, he after he lost his title, he just lost two years of his life, then rebuilt it. But I was I share his story in the book, but I also I was fascinated by the role of the corner. in boxing because we think of boxing as an individual sport. We Lord, the champions as individuals, yet they are made up of teams, they have their core, their trainer, their coaches, and so on. And I thought that was a really good metaphor for life. And the message I’ve got that you you ultimately implement stuff, but you have a team behind you. And Billy said to me, I asked him about the role of the team and the corner. And he said that they can analyse your opponent, they can come up with a game plan, they can get you fit, they can get you ready to fight. They can see what’s happening during the fight, they can reinvigorate your re energise, you refocus you between rounds. But when the bell goes, it’s just you with someone trying to punch your lights. And he said, You have to take responsibility. And I think that made that metaphor even stronger. That you should have your corner, your team, the people giving you the advice, giving you the support that you need. But ultimately, the decisions you make are your responsibility. no one else’s. Yeah. And it’s up to you to implement them as well. So those would be my three tips would be understand what’s holding you back. And you know, where you find the courage to ask for help. Put a strategy in place, be mindful about it in the way you approach it, and then take responsibility for taking action.
Susan Heaton-Wright 33:52
Brilliant, absolutely superb. I know that everybody listening to this, will be writing notes, I can visualise some of them now because some some of my listeners say that they take notes from everything. But it is transcribed as well for those people who are hard of hearing, because this is something that we’ve started implementing. Yeah. Is there anything else that you would like to add? How can people order your book,
they can order the book in all the normal ways? It’s, it’s on Amazon, it’s on I think the new there’s a new independent retailer, competitor to Amazon, I think it’s bookstore.co.uk in the UK, it Waterstones Smith, you can order it from all of them. And you could go into your local independent bookshop if you’re in the right tier, and ask them to order it in for you if they don’t stock it. So yeah, it’s an order all the usual places is currently available in paperback and Kindle or ereader. And it will be available in audiobook very early in the new year. Hopefully January 1st.
Susan Heaton-Wright 34:59
Ban too. So thank you, and how can people contact you if they want to ask you something or see if you can work with them?
Well the beauty of my name is that I’m pretty easy to find. So it’s Andy Lopata, on all the usual social media channels, you’ll find me. If you want to connect on LinkedIn, please personalise a request and say that you heard me on this podcast, and I’ll be happy to accept. But you know, Instagram, you’ve got Andy Lopata, there’s also connecting is not enough on Instagram. And Twitter is just AndyLopata Facebook slash networking strategy will be my page on Facebook as well.
Susan Heaton-Wright 35:52
Brilliant. Oh, well, thanks so much, Andy. It has been the most fantastic interview again. And I know that I’m going to take away lots of new things to consider. But I’m sure that for the listeners, you will also take a lot on board. And so thank you so much, Andy.
It’s my pleasure. Thank you again for inviting me back on so quickly and, and giving me this opportunity to talk about the new book.
Susan Heaton-Wright 36:22 Brilliant. So thank you very much listeners, remember that you can get this particular podcast on all of the main platforms. And I would really, really appreciate some referrals and recommendations. So if you feel that you would like to recommend this particular podcast. Don’t forget that you can write a short recommendation. So until next time, th